Spontaneous TC Journey

[Sharon Wu]

Can't do that i don't work in retail or shift work kinda job it is a grad scheme so 12 weeks minimum notice to leave.

Would it be unethical to just do it and wait out the consequences from my line manager? @Jessica Booker

I forget you're in a proper job... Much easier to do so in retail as they are always recruiting..

I hope you find an appropriate solution.

Keep us posted 👍

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

This is incredibly risky, particularly if you are public sector or in a regulated industry. It could lead to a misconduct charge which would limit your future career in law too. Things like that could lead to not passing the SRA suitability test.

Depending on the type of business you work for and the nature of your role, you could find yourself going against basic conflict checks for both your current employer and the VS firm. And if you lie or hide information that should be disclosed in these processes it can be career ending.

@Legalstalker
Echoing what Jessica has said here, but you should think about the real risks. I don't know what your job is but is there a reason (e.g. conflict of interest) they are strict on this, or is it more in the line of 'so you're not tired'?
E.g. some shelf stacker jobs will still say you're not allowed to pursue other full time employment whilst working for them - but this is because they want you to be able to devote 100% of your energy to the role. If this was the case, personally I would just risk it and take the leave and say nothing.
If as Jessica said this is a regulated profession (i.e. you are working in something like accounting, compliance, where you could come into contact with the law firm or the law firm's clients) then I would strongly consider otherwise. Ultimately up to you but don't let boilerplate clauses thrash your career. If the current role is truly dead end I would consider quitting to take the VS but only you can make that call.

 

[Legalstalker]

My career in law is ending before it even starts how nice

If i was unable to provide all A level certificates due to moving house and loosing them what should i do? I have been requested to upload for background check by tomorrow.

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

My career in law is ending before it even starts how nice

If i was unable to provide all A level certificates due to moving house and loosing them what should i do? I have been requested to upload for background check by tomorrow.

Tell them you've lost them but you've requested a new one (https://www.gov.uk/replacement-exam-certificate)
And you will get back to them as soon as you receive replacements.

 

[Jessica Booker]

My career in law is ending before it even starts how nice

If i was unable to provide all A level certificates due to moving house and loosing them what should i do? I have been requested to upload for background check by tomorrow.

You can ask for replacement A-level certificates or get your school to confirm your grades on letterhead. You can explain the the reference check company that it will take you a short period of time to get either of these.

 

[Legalstalker]

Simmons feedback call today

Very in depth and I really appreciate the amount of effort they’ve done into having a lengthy feedback call with everyone post AC.

From my feedback I can see where I went wrong and what they were looking for. It is still a shame as I was told I had a great interview and showed passion and in depth research of the firm and career in commercial law.

Also found out they only offer 2 spaces for the internship with TC consideration…. Slim picking indeed. But makes me feel a little better knowing it was super tough competition and I got an AC!

No application updates which is pretty good.
Just the agony of this background check being sooooo long!!! Why did I have soo many jobs between the ages of 16-19😭😭😭 still need to do Farrer TC and Bakers TC applications. Before 31/03/24

 

[americanmonarch]

• 47 Rejections
• latest rejection - BBC
• Hardest rejection - Pinsent
• Easiest rejection - DLA piper
• Ghosted me - Stephenson Harwood
• Best graduate recruitment - Simmons + Farrer & Co
• Tedious Application process - BBC (App, Test, VI + written task, 1,000 word written task + AC if you're lucky)
• VS offers - Goodwin
• AC invites - 4
• Applications remaining - 8

Super happy to get a Goodwin VS today! Honestly so many nightmare have been had about getting a rejection from this firm.
It is such a surreal feeling having made it this far in my first cycle as a graduate i really thought the odds were against me especially as i am non RG.

I really do owe this to soo many on the forum! Many have given me tips, advice on commercial awareness, AC advice, ranting on various things or even just messaging to see how i am and how my applications are going. The community on here is unmatched and definitely wouldn't be in the position without you guys and Jaysen for setting it up lol.

Decided i will be treating myself to a getaway and have booked a trip to Sweden for day next weekend lmao

was following your thread and super thrilled to see that you landed a VS with a great firm! well
done, you’d make a amazing trainee

 

[Legalstalker]

was following your thread and super thrilled to see that you landed a VS with a great firm! well
done, you’d make a amazing trainee

Awww thank you soo much that’s such a nice thing to say to someone!!!😭😭😭

 

[Legalstalker]

Spreadsheet update ✨


Not much of an application update apart from me finally submitting my Bakers TC application! Procrastinated that for a month😭

I have started my Farrer application and hope to submit by Tuesday next week.

I also got asked to re-record my WBD VI due to technical issues. Should get news about that next week.

I’ve included my pending applications as I may apply to W&C, Orrick and Macfarlanes.

As my cycle has basically come to an end I’m happy with my position but also feeling a bit mehhh. I feel like I’ve had a lot of luck and honestly don’t see myself pulling it out the bag for the scheme itself. I’m trying to be super positive but I sometimes feel like maybe they only took me on the diversity their VS intake? When I compare myself to those also attending the scheme they’re outstanding students for the best universities in the world.

I think it’s got to the point where I’ve even withdrawn from taking part in any of my sport fixtures. Ewww oversharing

Anyways looking forward to getting some application updates next week regardless of the outcome.

 

[Legalstalker]

@Jessica Booker @axelbeugre or anyone

Is it worth taking an LLM in medical law/ethics? (RG university)

I’m weighing up applying for a masters in this area as I am keen in to know more life sciences and medicine. Or would I be worth taking a msc in something sciences related? I didn’t take any science subjects at A levels so would be unable to do anything crazy like biochem etc.

I know many firms offer SQE with LLM so essentially would I be doing the same thing twice? Or would law firms take of the LLM part if I had completed it already.

would I be useful to travel for a few months than pick up an LLM.

I know this is super subjective but I’m open to others opinions on this.

 

[axelbeugre]

@Jessica Booker @axelbeugre or anyone

Is it worth taking an LLM in medical law/ethics? (RG university)

I’m weighing up applying for a masters in this area as I am keen in to know more life sciences and medicine. Or would I be worth taking a msc in something sciences related? I didn’t take any science subjects at A levels so would be unable to do anything crazy like biochem etc.

I know many firms offer SQE with LLM so essentially would I be doing the same thing twice? Or would law firms take of the LLM part if I had completed it already.

would I be useful to travel for a few months than pick up an LLM.

I know this is super subjective but I’m open to others opinions on this.

Hey @Legalstalker,

This is a really good question. I personally know that doing an LLM before the SQE LLM will not give you advantages/exemptions in terms of the LLM portion of the SQE LLM unfortunately. However, doing an LLM in an area of law you are very interested in could be really good for you especially if you really know that area of law is what you want to do long-term.

I would also consider the possibility that an LLM in a very specific area of law that not many law firms specialise in might also present its disadvantages as you might have an hard time to explain your interests in doing law at a firm that does not specialise in it, but this is a minor issue that I guess even non-law students (like me) face/faced and you just have to be smart about what you say.

In conclusion, I would really think about whether this is what you really want to specialise in. If the answer is yes, then I would do it, however if you still want to explore different areas during your career journey, then I would advise to do something else before starting the SQE.

I hope this is helpful and good luck with everything!

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker @axelbeugre or anyone

Is it worth taking an LLM in medical law/ethics? (RG university)

I’m weighing up applying for a masters in this area as I am keen in to know more life sciences and medicine. Or would I be worth taking a msc in something sciences related? I didn’t take any science subjects at A levels so would be unable to do anything crazy like biochem etc.

I know many firms offer SQE with LLM so essentially would I be doing the same thing twice? Or would law firms take of the LLM part if I had completed it already.

would I be useful to travel for a few months than pick up an LLM.

I know this is super subjective but I’m open to others opinions on this.

An SQE LLM will be very different to a specialist LLM in medical law, so you would definitely not be doing the same thing twice. You would just have two LLMs ( be mindful student finance for the second one is unlikely).

You should only do the specialist LLM if your future employer recommends it (for most firms this is unlikely) or you want to do it for your own interests.

 

[Legalstalker]

Hey @Legalstalker,

This is a really good question. I personally know that doing an LLM before the SQE LLM will not give you advantages/exemptions in terms of the LLM portion of the SQE LLM unfortunately. However, doing an LLM in an area of law you are very interested in could be really good for you especially if you really know that area of law is what you want to do long-term.

I would also consider the possibility that an LLM in a very specific area of law that not many law firms specialise in might also present its disadvantages as you might have an hard time to explain your interests in doing law at a firm that does not specialise in it, but this is a minor issue that I guess even non-law students (like me) face/faced and you just have to be smart about what you say.

In conclusion, I would really think about whether this is what you really want to specialise in. If the answer is yes, then I would do it, however if you still want to explore different areas during your career journey, then I would advise to do something else before starting the SQE.

I hope this is helpful and good luck with everything!

An SQE LLM will be very different to a specialist LLM in medical law, so you would definitely not be doing the same thing twice. You would just have two LLMs ( be mindful student finance for the second one is unlikely).

You should only do the specialist LLM if your future employer recommends it (for most firms this is unlikely) or you want to do it for your own interests.

Thank you both for your advice it’s super helpful!

i particular want to do life sciences but the uni allows for optional modules in IP and tech so would taking these to not fully close myself off to just a few firms be a good idea?

random one but I saw a good theory/science based msc at imperial which combines lab work and group research project woud this be more suited for the area I want to go into than an LLM?

i don’t think I would attempt to self fund the sqe.

in terms of funding Ive notice a huge difference with London unis such as LSE, kings & UCL being £20k but Durham, Edinburgh and Manchester being cheaper £12-15k is this due to preference of firms wanting London unis or just cost of living? (They are all very similar I’m ranking)

sorry for the bunch of questions

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you both for your advice it’s super helpful!

i particular want to do life sciences but the uni allows for optional modules in IP and tech so would taking these to not fully close myself off to just a few firms be a good idea?

random one but I saw a good theory/science based msc at imperial which combines lab work and group research project woud this be more suited for the area I want to go into than an LLM?

i don’t think I would attempt to self fund the sqe.

in terms of funding Ive notice a huge difference with London unis such as LSE, kings & UCL being £20k but Durham, Edinburgh and Manchester being cheaper £12-15k is this due to preference of firms wanting London unis or just cost of living? (They are all very similar I’m ranking)

sorry for the bunch of questions

I’d do the optional modules as a first step before committing to an LLM or any other postgraduate course.

The research MSc is really difficult to advise on. I think you need specialist advice on this to give you more accurate advice on this. I would recommend reaching out to some specialist Life Sciences lawyers to get their take on what would be useful to study, as I can only give generalist advice on this.

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

@Jessica Booker @axelbeugre or anyone

Is it worth taking an LLM in medical law/ethics? (RG university)

I’m weighing up applying for a masters in this area as I am keen in to know more life sciences and medicine. Or would I be worth taking a msc in something sciences related? I didn’t take any science subjects at A levels so would be unable to do anything crazy like biochem etc.

I know many firms offer SQE with LLM so essentially would I be doing the same thing twice? Or would law firms take of the LLM part if I had completed it already.

would I be useful to travel for a few months than pick up an LLM.

I know this is super subjective but I’m open to others opinions on this.

Maybe a more cynical approach than Axel but my experience, not only with the legal TC recruitment process, but also professional services / City industry recruitment in general is that the current generation of graduates is far too concerned with and misguided about the efficacy of 'parchment collecting' than getting on with things. After your bachelors, generally any additional qualifications (e.g. Masters) will be increasingly gratuitous, and after a certain point arguably make your candidacy worse. An academic qualification is *not* a free pass to a job in the related field, and nearly always any kind of experience or extra curricular pursuits will trump the MSc/LLM itself. E.g. if you say you have a keen interest in life science law practise, attend seminars on this, network with people in the field, just read books or blogs about it etc., all of this will trump doing an LLM in my opinion, or at least be far, far more cost effective.

The SQE LLM is a different beast - it is basically the SQE prep course, packaged in a way that it technically qualifies as an LLM so that students can avail of student finance. It is very different to a traditional law LLM and you should not equate the two. On that note, doing an LLM in general is mostly a waste of time and money if your goal is to increase your odds of getting a TC. If you want to do it for recreational purposes - sure, go for it, but it will not make your odds of securing a 'better' TC any higher, so bear this in mind please.

 

[Legalstalker]

Maybe a more cynical approach than Axel but my experience, not only with the legal TC recruitment process, but also professional services / City industry recruitment in general is that the current generation of graduates is far too concerned with and misguided about the efficacy of 'parchment collecting' than getting on with things. After your bachelors, generally any additional qualifications (e.g. Masters) will be increasingly gratuitous, and after a certain point arguably make your candidacy worse. An academic qualification is *not* a free pass to a job in the related field, and nearly always any kind of experience or extra curricular pursuits will trump the MSc/LLM itself. E.g. if you say you have a keen interest in life science law practise, attend seminars on this, network with people in the field, just read books or blogs about it etc., all of this will trump doing an LLM in my opinion, or at least be far, far more cost effective.

The SQE LLM is a different beast - it is basically the SQE prep course, packaged in a way that it technically qualifies as an LLM so that students can avail of student finance. It is very different to a traditional law LLM and you should not equate the two. On that note, doing an LLM in general is mostly a waste of time and money if your goal is to increase your odds of getting a TC. If you want to do it for recreational purposes - sure, go for it, but it will not make your odds of securing a 'better' TC any higher, so bear this in mind please.

Hey thanks for this it is super helpful!

I didn't want to do an LLM to secure a TC . But because during my undergrad i took a joint honours and wasn't able to choose any optional modules in other areas so i am limited in terms of different practices within law and wanted to explore other sectors but spending £12k+ for exploring seems very silly now haha.

do you recommend joining zoom sessions a firm posts on LinkedIn in a sector you're interested in?

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

Hey thanks for this it is super helpful!

I didn't want to do an LLM to secure a TC . But because during my undergrad i took a joint honours and wasn't able to choose any optional modules in other areas so i am limited in terms of different practices within law and wanted to explore other sectors but spending £12k+ for exploring seems very silly now haha.

do you recommend joining zoom sessions a firm posts on LinkedIn in a sector you're interested in?

Individual modules certainly don't matter - approx. 50% of trainees at most top law firms have non-law degrees (myself included and I secured a TC) so won't have studied any law at all. It really won't matter what modules you studied and they won't affect what practice you ultimately qualify into - that will depend on where you do your seats during the TC.
If you want to explore other areas out of interest, there are much easier ways to do so than a masters - joining a zoom session certainly sounds like one of those options. A lot of firms will directly host seminars related to practice areas in law for prospective grads, and websites like LegalCheek and LawCareers.net also normally host these seminars with a law firm partner. You mentioned being a diversity candidate and AspiringSolicitors is another org that also hosts more targeted events like this. I attended a few of these to get more knowledge when I was researching a career in law and found them quite useful.

 

[Legalstalker]

Ana

Individual modules certainly don't matter - approx. 50% of trainees at most top law firms have non-law degrees (myself included and I secured a TC) so won't have studied any law at all. It really won't matter what modules you studied and they won't affect what practice you ultimately qualify into - that will depend on where you do your seats during the TC.
If you want to explore other areas out of interest, there are much easier ways to do so than a masters - joining a zoom session certainly sounds like one of those options. A lot of firms will directly host seminars related to practice areas in law for prospective grads, and websites like LegalCheek and LawCareers.net also normally host these seminars with a law firm partner. You mentioned being a diversity candidate and AspiringSolicitors is another org that also hosts more targeted events like this. I attended a few of these to get more knowledge when I was researching a career in law and found them quite useful.

Amazing, I will take this onboard!

Thanks a bunch for your help and congrats on your TC

 

[Sharon Wu]

Spreadsheet update ✨
View attachment 5980

Not much of an application update apart from me finally submitting my Bakers TC application! Procrastinated that for a month😭

I have started my Farrer application and hope to submit by Tuesday next week.

I also got asked to re-record my WBD VI due to technical issues. Should get news about that next week.

I’ve included my pending applications as I may apply to W&C, Orrick and Macfarlanes.

As my cycle has basically come to an end I’m happy with my position but also feeling a bit mehhh. I feel like I’ve had a lot of luck and honestly don’t see myself pulling it out the bag for the scheme itself. I’m trying to be super positive but I sometimes feel like maybe they only took me on the diversity their VS intake? When I compare myself to those also attending the scheme they’re outstanding students for the best universities in the world.

I think it’s got to the point where I’ve even withdrawn from taking part in any of my sport fixtures. Ewww oversharing

Anyways looking forward to getting some application updates next week regardless of the outcome.

Hey any update?
How are you preparing for your vacation schemes?

 

[Legalstalker]

✨Spreadsheet update✨ courtesy of @Sharon Wu

• 54 Rejections
• latest rejection - Mofo
• Hardest rejection - Pinsent Masons (post AC for TC) + Simmons & Simmons (post AC for internship x SVS)
• Easiest rejection - DLA piper
• Ghosted me - Stephenson Harwood
• Best graduate recruitment - Farrer & Co + Goodwin (I’ve never laughed on the phone soo much with grad rec in my life)🤣
• Tedious Application process - BBC (App, Test, VI + written task, 1,000 word written task and AC if you're lucky)
• VS offers - Goodwin + Farrer & Co
• AC invites - 4
• Applications remaining - 4

I was rejected by WBD, HL & Bakers all in 1 day basically 🤣 not sure how I felt about that tbh and Bakers kinda stung 🥲 but we move!!

Mayer Brown have risen from the dead 💀 with an invite to take their SJT test 😄 5 months after applying thought they ghosted me😌

Mofo actually gave me a rejection 🥳 I assume this is because I emailed gaslighting them into giving my me one and not ghosting me 🤣

I submitted my Farrer TC application with a few amendments from my VS application.

Everytime I see someone post about SH and not hearing back makes me chuckle as I’ve not heard back from my winter VS app last year… hang in there 😅😂

In terms of prepping for my VS I’ve not done much 😳 I’ve chronically been on LinkedIn 🤣 I shall reduce this starting from today! I have finally got myself a mentor at one of the firms which is great as I am able to get some more insight. As well as provisionally getting a Coffee chat in too. I’m going to start working om my commercial awareness again starting Monday! I didn’t want to start prepping too early and drowning myself in stuff I probably won’t need to know…

Ive learnt that many who go into a VS don’t do excessive research and just take it one day at a time. Cool calm casual is my approach (I hope it works)😅

I’ve connected with a bunch of partners, trainees and even HR members to get a view of the firms from different perspectives as well as see the type of work they do and what they post/like on LinkedIn.

I’m still waiting to hear what department I’ll be sat in for Goodwin and once I know then I’ll tailor any ‘prep’ I do to that area but it’ll be basic stuff like terminology, partners, clients etc. my aim is to be able to speak to people about work but also just life.

With a US firm especially you’ll be working 12/15 hr days and if we aren’t able to talk about none work stuff it gets pretty awkward no?🤣 I want them to see me as more than just this eager person who wants a job but someone who has personality and character.

But if there’s anything anyone is doing to prep that will be of some use please do let me know I don’t want to mess this up at all😭