TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,

 

[Cynthia14]

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,

Do you know the reason they rejecting people with 38 and taking who with 25?

 

[yasmars]

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

Hmm I get your point, but I think doing well in my law degree directly correlates to my ability to critically analyse well and process information etc, not a test that purposefully tries to trip people up. Firms use these tests to filter the 1000s of applications they get.

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

Do you know the reason they rejecting people with 38 and taking who with 25?

Yes, the people with 25/40 did very well in the CAPP assessment.

 

[laby201]

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,

I 100% agree that you could still perform averagely on the WG and still go on to thrive at an elite firm, and I also agree that in many ways it likely is just an effective way of cutting down applicants. When you get 4,000 applicants like some of the MC firms do, a test like the WG is a straightforward and mostly useful way of doing that.

My main point is though I still understand the point of it: it evaluates your ability to critically analyse, interpret information, and review arguments, which will all be useful as a lawyer. However, I’m less convinced of the benefits of Arctic Shores as I don’t think your ability to remember a sequence, pop balloons, or how long you want to last on that unlocking exercise before you throw your laptop across the room do reflect any abilities to perform well on a VS/TC.

 

[elektrajenkov]

Thank you! I haven't heard anything yet I was in the middle dot for the majority, with about 50/50 to the left/right.

When did you submit your application if you don't mind me asking? I know it's non-rolling but I love the firm and scrambling!

Definitely would not worry, I feel like I read somewhere they weren't expected to get back to people until March so I'm guessing they do batches. Also, given it's an interview with someone from grad recruitment, I'm guessing it depends on who is reading your application/doing the interview because mine was from a specific person rather than the general email. I submitted my application late on the deadline (I remember stressing trying to get it in on time while on holiday 8 hours behind with my friend waiting to leave for a hike )

 

[Jessica Booker]

Do you know the reason they rejecting people with 38 and taking who with 25?

They will be looking at other assessment scores or information from the application form in conjunction with the WG assessment

 

[laby201]

Hmm I get your point, but I think doing well in my law degree directly correlates to my ability to critically analyse well and process information etc, not a test that purposefully tries to trip people up. Firms use these tests to filter the 1000s of applications they get.

Oh yeah I’m not disputing at all that its primary goal is to filter applicants, but I can at least understand the rationale behind the test. Less so on Arctic Shores or any games based assessments; I just think they’re stupid 😂😂

 

[Soprano]

I applied W&C in November. Heard nothing back. Should I assume a rejection?

 

[axelbeugre]

Yes, its a video interview with graduate recruitment so would the questions have to be tailored to graduate recruitment or can they be about the firm in general?

If it is with graduate recruitment, I personally asked about the firm, the training contract structure, international opportunities, how can I be involved in pro bono at the firm, flexibility in choosing pro bono matters, skills of a successful trainee. These are some of the questions I would ask.

 

[GWJlaw]

@axelbeugre @Jessica Booker

Hiya,

I was wondering if you think there are any advantages of completing a 2 week summer scheme over a 1 week spring scheme. A firm has given me the option of both and I feel like having the extra week may allow for extra coffee chats or time to build rapport. Do you know if factors like this will be considered when assessing candidates for TCs? I want to give myself the best chance

To that point, do you have any tips with how to succeed on a vacation scheme?

Thanks so much for all the help!

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

What is the pay generally like with flexlegal in london? And how long are the projects from people's experience?

 

[axelbeugre]

@axelbeugre @Jessica Booker

Hiya,

I was wondering if you think there are any advantages of completing a 2 week summer scheme over a 1 week spring scheme. A firm has given me the option of both and I feel like having the extra week may allow for extra coffee chats or time to build rapport. Do you know if factors like this will be considered when assessing candidates for TCs? I want to give myself the best chance

To that point, do you have any tips with how to succeed on a vacation scheme?

Thanks so much for all the help!

Congratulations on securing an offer first of all!! You should be so proud!

Secondly, I personally would choose what suits you best in terms of university work and other commitments. I personally think that there is no benefits in doing one or the other if a firm offers multiple. I would say that I did the spring scheme at a firm last year and more offers were offered in the spring scheme cohort then the summer one, so this is something I would take into account.

However, it depends on the firm, some firms do have stricter conversion rate so joining either scheme will not matter as much. In conclusion, I would say that it depends on you and your free time, but the spring scheme, in my opinion, if you are free to do it, might give you more chances purely based on the fact that it happens before.

In terms of tips to prepare for a vacation scheme, I shared some tips in this post which I think would be beneficial to you: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....ns-discussion-thread-2023-24.8037/post-168253

Good luck!

 

[e_deniz1]

NRF next stage invite (teams interview with grad recruitment)!

Congratulations!! When is the interview, did they give you a date yet?

 

[MrHubertLouis]

Not sure this is the right place to ask but I recently booked a mock interview with TCLA and have been trying to reschedule it since I can no longer attend it but I haven’t been successful. Can anybody advise what I can do?

 

[aspiringlawyer47]

What are the best questions to ask at the end of a partner interview?

Questions I’ve asked:

Work related:
1. (Assuming they’ve been at the firm for more than 10 years which most partners have been) What has kept you at the firm for so many years?

2. What are the biggest challenges of being a partner?

3. What are your hopes for the firm/your department over the next few years?

About you as a future trainee:

1. What character traits are you looking for in trainees that do a seat rotation in your department?

When they give you an answer, you can follow up and ask if these are common traits in successful (those who have qualified and stayed at the firm) trainees.

2. If you are working on a matter with a trainee and their supervisor, what kind of tasks are usually assigned to trainees?

3. What would you say is the recipe for success as a vacation scheme candidate/trainee?

I’m 100% sure they’ll say there isn’t one but in my experience, it presents an opportunity for further discussion.

Hope this helps and best of luck in your interview!

 

[alissss]

Has anyone done the SPARK video interview? is there any advice on how to answer the first 2 questions, and does anyone know what the third one might be?
thank you!

 

[l234567]

could anyone who has done a HSF AC pm me please?

 

[sxw517]

So PH doesn't interview for a TC at the end of the VS? Would you have to wait to apply for the direct TC the following year?

 

[hanz123]

Questions I’ve asked:

Work related:
1. (Assuming they’ve been at the firm for more than 10 years which most partners have been) What has kept you at the firm for so many years?

2. What are the biggest challenges of being a partner?

3. What are your hopes for the firm/your department over the next few years?

About you as a future trainee:

1. What character traits are you looking for in trainees that do a seat rotation in your department?

When they give you an answer, you can follow up and ask if these are common traits in successful (those who have qualified and stayed at the firm) trainees.

2. If you are working on a matter with a trainee and their supervisor, what kind of tasks are usually assigned to trainees?

3. What would you say is the recipe for success as a vacation scheme candidate/trainee?

I’m 100% sure they’ll say there isn’t one but in my experience, it presents an opportunity for further discussion.

Hope this helps and best of luck in your interview!

Thank you 😊